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Don't Eat With Your Mouth Full

Where can we live but days?

steepholm steepholm
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Bullshit Diary - 3
Not for the first time, I find myself agreeing with Jeremy Corbyn.

On the one hand...

... I don't like or trust the EU, especially in terms of its lack of democracy and its willingness to negotiate free trade deals involving assymetrical arrangements for US corporations to sue EU governments should they put their citizens' interests ahead of those of said corporations. (And if that's not what's in TTIP, they're doing a very poor job of advertising what is in TTIP.)

On the other hand...

... the Brexiters are a such a motley bunch of capitalist ideologues, racists and chancers that I find it hard to imagine delivering the country into their hands either. Corbyn talked about the consequent "bonfire of workers' rights", but to that we might add the bonfire of environmental and social protections.

As for the economics - I don't know, and I'm not convinced anyone does. On balance, I'm inclined to hold my nose with Corbyn, or abstain for the first time in my life, or perhaps donate my vote to my daughter, who'll be a few weeks short of her majority on 23 June, and is after all likely to be affected by the outcome for longer than I am.

Meanwhile, I have largely stopped logging things under "bullshit arguments" because life is too short, but I was struck by Stephen Kinnock's response to Boris Johnson's pointing out (correctly) that the US would never dream of pooling its sovereignty in the way that membership of the EU entails, to the effect that it already does so by being a member of NATO and the WTO, as if those were in any way comparable. I despise Johnson, but I also don't like having my intelligence insulted by Kinnock. There are far more effective ways he might have answered (for example by pointing out that the USA's size and wealth allow it to do things that the UK never could) than with this childish misdirection.

That was topped today, however, by Angela Eagle, who apparently said:

“There are no countries that trade with the European Union that don’t have to accept free movement, that don’t end up paying virtually the same that we pay into the European budget."

China? Japan? The USA? They have to accept free movement and pay into the EU budget in order to trade with the EU? Please.

So far this debate has sucked harder than a vacuum pump.

If the UK exits I will have to leave. And I assume all the UK citizens who have retired in Spain will have to come back (which so far no-one seems to be talking about).


I get a vote and I know how I will vote.

Why would you have to leave? Are you here as an EU national? Even if you are, as far as I can see even the furthest reaches of the Brexit campaign aren't proposing to deport EU nationals who are already here. But you're right that there'd be no obligation on Spain, etc., to show similar largesse. After all, at the moment the UK gets the better of the deal, importing fit young tax-payers and exporting retired people for foreign health-case systems to take care of.

I am here as the primary carer of a self-sufficient EEA minor child who is exercising her rights under the Treaty of Rome. I got quite well-read on the legalese of it all when I was applying for the residence card. As far I am aware the rights to reside of all EEA nationals in the UK stem from this treaty, which is what the UK is considering withdrawing from. If that is the case I don't see how any can be allowed to stay under the current system. If the UK suddenly finds there are no Poles and Estonians left to provide cheap labour there might be a rethink and some sudden redrafting of immigration laws.

Thanks - I hadn't realised the exact nature of your position (though you may have explained it to me in a pub - if so, apologies!). I honestly doubt whether you would find yourself kicked out, any more than the millions of other people who are here on the basis of EU citizenship - but equally I can see why you wouldn't want to put that to the test.